EG: Okay, I’m here in Dublin, Ireland, with Finbar Geaney, longtime activist and President of Dublin Council of Trade Unions. He and I both participate in a weekly discussion group run by the Workers’ International Network (WIN). And we’re looking forward to him telling us all about the situation in Ireland right now.
So… hi Finn, it’s great to get to sit down and talk with you. I enjoyed our last conversation, so I wonder if you would tell people in the US just a little bit, just briefly, what’s the situation now in Ireland?
FG: Well, I’m glad to share whatever information I have, Eric, with yourself. The first point is that we have a conservative, right wing government led by two conservative parties. One is called Fianna Fail, which is an Irish expression which roughly translates as “soldiers of Ireland.” And the second conservative party, called Fine Gael, roughly translates as “United Ireland.”
So we have two right-wing bourgeois nationalist parties in government, which have recently, just a year ago, been re-elected to government. It’s a major issue in Ireland, because the programme of that government inevitably means shortages in terms of housing, increases in living standards for basic commodities, a crisis in the health service, where a lot of the National Health Service has been privatised and you have to pay quite large subscriptions into private insurance companies. There’s a crisis in education as well, with the shortages of teachers and places and people have to pay fees for university education for a large part of education. So this right-wing government has created and maintains these conditions.
In terms of the opposition, the opposition is split. The largest opposition party in parliament is Sinn Fein, which is an Irish expression which translates as “we ourselves” as though it could be something else. But “we ourselves” as the name of a political party tells you nothing. The smaller left-wing parties don’t really work together. There’s a number of left-wing groups that made attempts at various times to unite, but without any major success. They have about four members of Parliament.
The Labour Party used to be quite a significant organization in Ireland; its largest percentage in terms of its vote and poll would have been say 30%; that’s over 30 years ago. At the present time, its polling is around 5%. Then there’s a second similar party called the Social Democrats, which polls roughly the same as the Labour Party. Many of their leaders emerged from the Labour Party from disagreements within the Labour Party 10 or 15 years ago. So that’s the opposition.
So as I say, it’s a right-wing conservative government, and there’s no elections for quite a while in place. Elections can be held every five years, and we’ve recently had one. Now an election is coming up for the President; there’s a presidential election happening later this year. Now, the President in Ireland doesn’t have much power. They have a constitutional role in terms of signing documents that have been agreed by Parliament, provided they’re within the terms of the constitution. So the President has that latitude to examine legislation, but not to reject it. So the President’s role is largely ceremonial: opening events, making speeches, making his or her presence felt internationally, and so on (although I must say that the present president Michael D Higgins has played a very good role internationally in raising issues of inequality, poverty, of genocide in Gaza; he’s been very outspoken on these questions).
But anyway, there’s an election coming up for President, and to date a number of candidates have declared. There are three candidates currently in the field: one from Fianna Fail, which I just described as a right-wing party; one from Fine Gael, which is the second right-wing party; and the third declared candidate, Catherine Connolly, who is an independent and an ex-member of the Labour Party with quite a good record, but not very well known.
EG: Okay so let’s stop right there for just a minute and back up and explore a couple of those things. A lot of people in the United States, particularly people from Irish backgrounds, have a very positive idea about Sinn Fein, they
idealize it. And I wonder, could you say a little bit about your feelings about Sinn Fein and maybe coming up to the next parliamentary election? I’ve heard some people discussing it here. What’s their likelihood of electoral success and what’s your estimate of them as a political force in the country?
FG: In electoral terms, they’re undoubtedly the largest of the opposition parties. They are also a left-wing party. That’s not in question, in the most general possible way. Their policies on housing and issues of equality and health are good left-wing progressive policies. But as a party they are not a socialist party with a consistent programme that transforms society away from capitalism. They’re a progressive party, and undoubtedly on the left.
But a lot of people don’t understand or are not familiar with the history of Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein began in the early part of the last century as a monarchist party. They favored what they called a dual monarchy, like the Austro-Hungarian empire. They wanted to have a dual monarchy between Britain and Ireland. There’d be an Irish King and English Kingdom sharing the monarchy. That was how they began. They dropped that after a period of time. They were a very small sectarian group with no real presence. They published a journal, but they had no real presence. There was an uprising in Ireland in 1916, an attempt to win independence. Sinn Fein was not involved at all in that uprising, because it was organised by a group, with a lot of influence from America, called the Republican brotherhood. But after the 1916 rising the press began to refer to the rising as the “Sinn Fein rising”. So, the name Sinn Fein took off somewhat.
They had a number of MPs elected to Parliament. In the 1918 election, the MPs that were elected decided not to go to Westminster but to convene instead in Ireland and establish a parliament in Ireland. So that’s the origin. And then there was the War of Independence to free Ireland from Britain and subsequently the Civil War. Arising out of that, Sinn Fein split into two separate parties. One developed into what’s now Fianna Fail, as a separate party, and the other developed into what’s now Fine Gael. So both these parties emerged from Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein itself, the original party, continued in existence but it had very little influence.
EG: Well, but more recently, coming up to a few decades ago, what would be thought of in the US, at least, is that they were the party that fought for equality for the Catholic minority in the north, and fought against the British during what’s called in Northern Ireland “the troubles.” What do you think about the role that was played there?
FG: It’s an inadequate and incomplete analysis. In 1969 there was a convention called by Sinn Fein. I was there. The majority in Sinn Fein at that time were in favor of the Civil Rights Campaign. They were involved in civil rights. They were in favor of socialist measures in terms of land and natural resources. A minority were opposed to these involvements in social questions and arguments set for a focus on the Northern Ireland struggle against Britain. That small minority at the time was supported by right-wing businessmen. That group then eventually called itself “provisional Sinn Fein,” and what began as the provisional Sinn Fein in 1969-70 continued in existence until what’s now called Sinn Fein. The official Sinn Fein, the majority group, became, well, the remains of Sinn Fein for many years, then they became the Workers’ Party, and largely disappeared.
In what began as a right-wing split, Sinn Fein eventually developed, mainly because of the British attacks. The British Army were attacking communities in Belfast and the Falls Road and the areas where the Catholics lived. There were attacks in Derry. There was Bloody Sunday in 1972 where 13 people were murdered, and a 14th died subsequently. And then Sinn Fein, whose main focus was the Northern Ireland struggle, picked up a lot of support, and eventually they had a few people elected to local government, and they also began to get a presence in the south of Ireland. They had four MPs in the early period.
But later, in the absence of serious campaigning by left wing groups in Ireland, Sinn Fein filled that vacuum. They now are operating as a serious left-wing opposition, in the absence of the labour organizations, the trade unions and their labour structures pursuing a left-wing policy. The Labour Party went into coalition time and time again with right-wing parties and became discredited.
In 1969 Labour had been seen as the only real alternative to Fianna Fail and Fine Gael, up to recent times, to the early ‘80s. The Labour Party, again, was positioning itself, because of its trade union affiliation, as the only credible opposition to Fianna Fail and Fine Gael. But they went into coalition time and time again; at one particular time they formed a coalition with Fianna Fail, which collapsed. And then before an election was held, they formed a coalition with Fine Gael. So inevitably, the Labour Party became discredited. It was from that period onwards that Sinn Fein then gradually picked up support to the extent that they are now seen as the major opposition party. The voting, the polling numbers reflect that. They are left-wing, that’s not in doubt. They will probably make significant gains in the next election, that’s probably true. Their ambition is for their leader to become Taoiseach: Prime Minister of the country, or to, at least to have their leader elected to that position; that’s their ambition. It may happen, but it’s in no way clear cut.
So people think Sinn Fein is the answer. That’s an inadequate analysis. Sinn Fein is a very complicated thing. It has a complex history. It leans on nationalist thinking quite a bit, the anti-British and Irish unity questions in the abstract. Irish unity is obviously something we would all favour; we’re in favour of the country being united. But these things don’t happen just by calling for it, because there’s a lot of division in Ireland. That can only be achieved by uniting people around common issues like living standards and equality and health provision and social welfare provision, rather than just calling abstractly for a United Ireland.
EG: Okay, so right there, I’m going to cut in, because I’m aware that not everyone in the US knows all the history. I’m going to give a quick ten-second history. Ireland was controlled, colonized, by the UK for centuries, and it got loose earlier this last century, except for six counties up in the northern part of the country, which are still part of the United Kingdom, and the rest of Ireland constitutes the Republic of Ireland. So people may not understand that it can be a little bit confusing. Northern Ireland is still under the control of the British government, whereas this part of the country is its own separate, independent country.
Okay, so going back, if we go to the to the current situation. You have a Labour Party in this country; and I would want to support a labor party, a party based on the unions. You have already explained that it made the mistake a number of times of going into coalition with right-wing parties, going along with neoliberal policies and other things. What is the relationship between the unions here in the Republic of Ireland and the Labour Party? Also, maybe if you could say a little bit about how the unions have been doing over the last decade or two?
FG: What you say is correct about the north and the south. The way you’ve described it. Six countries in the north remain part of the UK, they send Members of Parliament to the Westminster Parliament, and they also have a local parliament in Stormont who select themselves.
Interestingly, there’s a coalition running the Northern Ireland Parliament, which involves Sinn Fein and right-wing Unionist parties working together carrying out the policies of the British government in the north of Ireland. That’s an aside.
Down here the question of the Labour Party is a very good question and well worth analyzing. The Labour Party down here is very poorly represented now, but it was founded by the trade union movement. The trade unions agreed in the early part of the last century to form a political representative body that would represent their interest on the political plane. So the Irish trade unions and Labour Party combined in a single organization, trade union and Labour Party that split sometime in the 30s. They separated the political wing from the industrial wing, but the unions all affiliated to the Labour Party. They were all formally affiliated. So all the major unions, particularly the industrial unions, were all part and parcel of the Labour Party because of affiliation. They were affiliated as a corporate body. The unions as corporate bodies then sent delegates to congresses, to executive meetings, to branch meetings, and the rest of it.
Then in more recent times, maybe 15 years ago or thereabout, the Irish Labour Party changed its constitution at a democratically convened conference to disallow unions to affiliate. They said that no union could any longer affiliate to the Labour Party. So that link has now been broken. The formal link has been broken.
EG: Why on earth would the leadership want to do that? What was stated, what did they believe the advantage to doing that would be?
FB: I think the tone of your question, Eric, answers the question: why on earth would anybody want to do that? I was at the conference, because I’m a member of the Labour Party. The argument that was advanced at that conference, and which won, was carried to a democratic vote. The argument advanced by the leadership was: the Labour Party doesn’t want to be seen as a sectarian kind of party representing only the trade unions, as though that were a bad thing. I mean, the unions are a mass force across Irish society!
The argument that was put was: we represent all creeds and classes and organization and communities; we don’t want to be associated just with the unions. That was the argument that was advanced. This often happens at these conventions, even though there’s a lot of discussion and democracy and up and down and the roster. The leadership, very often, by weight of its position and prestige, carries the day. So, it was agreed. There’s no unions, they can’t affiliate.
As a consequence of that, the Labour Party is very small. In recent opinion polls it’s hovering at around 4 5%. They’re not much bigger than the bus queue outside the window here. Ireland is a modern industrial country; it’s not a rural society – it’s an industrial society. There are several cities and a very high proportion of people working in the services because manufacturing industry has declined significantly here, like in other countries. But it’s ridiculous in a country of this size to say that affiliation with trade unions is a negative factor.
Now you asked also about unions. There’s a high degree of organisation of trade unions in Ireland. It’s not what it used to be. It used to be two thirds of the working population. It now hovers around maybe 20-30% and very small in manufacturing (manufacturing is a small sector); but it’s way over 60% in the services, in the public service, in public sector, civil servants, trade unions, hospital workers, transport and so on. They’d be more highly represented.
But the density isn’t the main question either. There’s a low level of industrial density, for example, in France. There’s a very low percentage of people who are actually members of unions. But it’s a very militant country in terms of workers action. Action by workers on the ground doesn’t depend on the level of union membership; there’s lots of other factors involved. But nonetheless, even with the several strikes have happened in Ireland in recent years, in the health service, in transport, teaching (there’s currently a strike developing in teaching): strikes continue. There’s a strong respect for trade unions.The trade unions are very heavily involved in many issues, not just wages and health and other issues at work which they are involved in. They’re also very involved in the anti- racist movement, very involved in the anti-Israeli IDF movement, anti-genocide. They’re heavily involved in housing, fighting the right, fighting against the genocide. So, the unions have quite a prestigious role.
There’s two days of action coming up on Gaza, next Thursday and Friday. The Irish Congress of Trade Unions, and all the trade unions across the country, are leading and participating fully in that event. They’re also very much part of the housing campaigns in the country. The Irish Congress of Trade Unions, which is the national body, set up an organisation called “Raise the Roof.” That’s its title. Its purpose is to create public house building, to have a public house building program and to have a public body charged with building, a public building company. This happened in the past with other industries around the electricity supply industry in Ireland. It was owned by the state. It was a state-owned company. The same is true in many other industries as well.
So, there’s now an attempt to denationalise and to privatise these companies, under this and previous right-wing governments. But the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, representing all of the unions is a significant body in Irish society. But unfortunately, as I explained just a short while ago, in terms of politics they’re not able to carry through their program with their own political party, because of the structural issues, policy issues, coalition issues and everything else.
EG: Okay, I think the one other thing that I think is really important to talk about and worth talking about and it’s a bit different to our situation in the US, but I think that there’s probably more parallel than differences is this question of immigration. There’s been quite a lot of immigration to the country. Ireland, interestingly, is one of the few countries in the world that’s actually lost population over the better part of the last century and a half because of the famine, because of all the terrible conflicts and oppression that were going on here at the end of the 19th century. But in recent years a lot of people have migrated into Ireland, for many reasons: for economic opportunities, also because of all the terrible wars and conflicts in the Middle East. I wonder if you could just say a little bit about what the perception of that is and how that’s unfolding in Irish society right now?
FG: You’re right to refer to the mass emigration that happened in the 19th century. There was a famine in the country in 1847 which was man-made. The expression is now used in terms of Gaza. The British policy was that food was exported from Ireland to pay the rent for the land that the peasants lived on. Boats were leaving the ports of Ireland with food, with meats, with cereals and other produce, to pay the landlord class while people were starving in the country. So, it was a man-made famine and it was mass emigration, principally to North America, but also to Canada, Australia and to Britain, obviously. Mass emigration, and the population fell by millions.
There was another collapse in the population following World War II. In the 1950s there was very little work available in Ireland, even on farms. Most of the farm’s family would emigrate and work on the building sites in London and other places. So, there was mass immigration in the 50s.
Then there was a change in industrial policy from the late 60s, when the government decided to invite in foreign investment from America, from Germany and other places to build industry here. They got all kinds of concessions. They got free factories, free rental, all kinds of concessions in terms of training, export guarantees, no taxes on income earned from exporting and all that. As a consequence, there was a rise in employment and a rise in the population. People came back, and then the population began to rise. At the present time, I think the population is around 5 ½ million. Now it’s a significant rise. When I was young the population was 3 million. That’s a long time ago of course!
EG: Picking up where we left off. The population, yeah, just a few more words about immigration?
FG: Yes, it’s increasing. The population is increasing. It’s expected that in less than 20 years time it could reach over 7 million. So it puts us way beyond what it was before 1847. In terms of immigration, there have been a lot of immigrants arriving here from India, from Nigeria, from the Middle East, from several countries. And there is now an anti-immigrant movement. It’s small, but it’s there, and it’s developing and gaining influence, particularly in poor communities.
As is always the case, the government brings people into poorer communities and establishes them there in poor refuges, sometimes in hotels, in unused industrial buildings. There was a big building – the east wall in Dublin on the East Coast – which used to be owned by the electricity supply company that was converted into accommodation for immigrants. Because of the lack of preparation and poor facilities and the housing crisis and the health crisis, right-wing forces can then exploit that situation to their own advantage. Now they don’t have huge support – there’s a handful of councillors that have been elected on right-wing, anti-immigrant programmes – but not very many. People do talk about it in critical terms, but in electoral terms, there isn’t a huge amount of obvious support for these right-wing groups, but they are there; and some of them are openly fascist.
There was one counter-rally that was called last year, about a year ago now, against these right-wing groups. The trade unions are very heavily involved. There was a huge demonstration which began just outside here in Parnell Square, just outside the hotel. The English fascist Tommy Robinson came over to Dublin with a view to create or develop a counter march of fascist and right-wingers. When he came to Parnell square and saw the assembly of tens of thousands of people opposing racism and opposing the right- wing, he disappeared. He went down to Cork and abandoned the idea of holding a counter march. But having said that, there had been some quite big marches through Dublin of racist and anti-immigrant groups, maybe 5-6 thousand people, but there’s always a counter march. The trade council, ourselves, and others always call a counter march to let it be known that we don’t accept these people’s right to march through the city abusing and harassing immigrants.
One of the leaders, one of the organisers of that was Conor McGregor, who you might remember from his visit to the White House on St. Patrick’s Day. McGregor was invited by Trump to make a speech attacking immigrants in Ireland and the imagined “destruction of Irish culture”. McGregor is behind these marches through Dublin. They’re serious, and have to be taken seriously, but they’re small. 150 thousand marched in London a couple days ago behind the fascist leader, Robinson; we haven’t got that, not yet.
Just in conclusion, as well, there’s a group which was formed in Ireland a couple years ago called “Le Cheile.” That’s an Irish expression which means together. So, the Irish expression together is “Le Cheile.” Le Cheile is the United Front which involves community groups, NGOs, the trade union movement and left-wing parties. So that united front, Le Cheile, is now the main focus of opposition to the racists and the anti-immigrants.
EG: Okay, to just maybe wind our discussion up: I wonder what do you think are the most potent organizing themes? What are the things to raise to counter these ideas of xenophobia and exclusion and all the fear mongering and all that. What sorts of things does the trade union council or others raise?
FG: That’s a very good question. Just before I get to it I just want to mention one thing. The Le Cheile group is calling a carnival against racism on the 27th of September, where we’re bringing together all the various groups that have been involved with us in a joyous, celebratory welcoming people. There’ll be singers and performers from other countries and other backgrounds and so on. So, it’s a carnival which is supported by the trade union movement and NGOs.
You asked, what are the issues? The principal issue that the right wing are mobilising on is housing. They campaign all the time; even these marches that we build counter marches to, their main chants are about housing. “Why can’t you house us?” “The immigrants are getting all these beautiful buildings to live in and we have to live in rubbish”. And it’s absolute garbage. The immigrants are housed in hotels in terrible conditions. And in any case, the housing shortage is because of government policy and the failure to fund the house building program to meet the needs of the population. That’s the real cause.
So, the campaign issues that we focus on are: number one, housing; also the health service. The Irish health service used to be predominantly a publicly funded health service where anybody could go into any hospital and be treated free of charge. That’s breaking down now, and it’s creating huge queues of people in the health service. People are now being forced to join private health insurance companies at enormous cost: several thousand euros a year in order to be treated. So, health is also an issue which we have to campaign on. So, what we are campaigning for is a publicly available national health service free at the point of delivery. So, people pay into the national health service by means of a tax like contribution for at the point of delivery, health treatment, optical, dental, all the other issues that affect people’s health, plus prescriptions, as used to be the case in Britain by the way, up until the ‘70s. So, we’re campaigning for a health service free at the point of delivery and the employment of more nurses, more professionals, more health care workers in the community. So that’s a campaign issue. Another campaign issue is the cost of living. The supermarkets are making enormous profits. The food companies are making enormous profits, but the people who have to go into the supermarket to buy bread and eggs and butter and cheese are paying huge increases, so the cost of living crisis is also a big problem which we have to campaign on. So, these are the kind of issues that we’re building support around at the present time.
EG: Okay, I think that’s probably a lot to chew on for the people back in the States, and I’m so appreciating the chance to talk with you Finn. I just want to give a little plug for the discussion group that we’re both in – the Workers’ International Network, that meets on Sunday mornings (our time over in the States). And there’ll be information to tune in on there as people choose to. Thanks a lot Finn
FB: Thanks Eric.
15th September 2025